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Season 7 Plan.

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1 Season 7 Plan. on 2013-10-09, 07:56

mlfaijati

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Administrator & The Defenders
Administrator & The Defenders
So what has been I've tried to build up the last few days is finally here, the plan for Season 7:

The Plan wrote:
After an admin meeting on Monday we have decided to totally overhaul the plan for Season 7. This is by no means finalised but unless there is backlash from a large portion of the community then a plan similar to the one below will be how things will run in Season 7. If you want to make constructive criticisms of this (which I encourage), or to oppose it all together (which I don't oppose) then please read all of the reasoning. You'll find summary points at the top and the reasons why we have proposed this idea in the spoiler. It's pretty long but worth it if you want to gain the full understanding of our reasoning.


tl;dr Points

- All the current teams get disbanded.
- Captain Applications are opened again to everyone.
- 6-10 Captains are picked.
- Everyone who wants to play in the Season signs up for the draft
- Captains pick players in a usual draft fashion, google it.
- Teams will be locked for 2 weeks.
- Players can then be sign up to the free agency when a waivers system (google it, or if you know about /sp/hb then ye its that) will allow teams to sign players during the Season.
- At the end of the Season there will be 3 keepers, with the other players in each team having to be trimmed.
- The draft for the subsequent Season will be inverted obviously, we're not going to do another Season 3 heh.

The Reasoning:


Presented in a Q&A format because it makes sense.


Why the would you disband all the teams, isn't that a bit drastic?
Well, yes of course - but this isn't without good reason. We (the admin team) have drawn parallels to FM in terms of inactivity in the league, so we're putting these steps in place to stop ''it'' (the state FM is in) from happening before it happens. If this trend continues then we run the risk of the userbase becoming disillusioned with the league and this would result in the slow death of the league. 

That still doesn't explain why you want to disband all of the teams right?
So the solution to the above problem, from what we have decided is to reintroduce the draft. As I have discussed with Ren in the past, you can't really impose a draft onto exisiting teams as those cliques if you will have already formed and breaking them up wouldn't really work. Furthermore, a draft doesn't really work as well with a 2 Division tiered system, and by restarting the league (disbanding all current teams) this would result in having 1 Division again - a level playing field which a draft would thrive in.

Didn't you say the draft is outdated, why are you bringing it back
Well when I said that when we hadn't really tried the league without a draft system, and for the old Galaxy faithful, what Seasons have been more enjoyable, Seasons 1-3 or 4-6? We've tried both systems now (with and without the draft) and in terms of community cohesion and activity on the forums, it is clear that having a draft goes into the league's interests.

Didn't you say that the Draft was pointless because when the Free Agency opened people just signed whoever they wanted anyway?
Yes, but I feel as if we have the solution to this ready. Waivers. Waivers will go some way to stop 'stacked' teams from being created in the league. For those who don't know what waivers are (just google it ffs) I'll try and explain it here: Basically Waivers is an order of priority for players entering the free agency. Say that the Waivers order is as follows.
1) Team 1
2) Team 2
3) Team 3
4) Team 4
5) Team 5
6) Team 6

Say player X signs up to the free agency. If a team makes an offer for him then there will be a 24 hour period for another team to make a counter offer. So if Team 2 make the initial offer and then Team 1 make a counter offer then Team 1 will sign the player as they are higher in the waivers. After this signing is completed then the waivers order will be changed with Team 1 going to the bottom, so it would look like this:

1) Team 2
2) Team 3
3) Team 4
4) Team 5
5) Team 6
6) Team 1

This process will continue throughout the Season, with the Waivers order being changed with each signing that teams make.

So teams can basically steal players wanting to join other teams if they're higher up in the Waivers order, doesn't that seem like it will create conflict?
Well that isn't really discouraged. This is mostly because with a draft system this allows teams to have things that can be traded between teams; draft picks can be traded for players in any combination agreed between captains which added to players already being able to be traded (and maybe even Waivers spots) this gives teams lots of flexibility when signing players.

OK then, but doesn't this all seem a bit too complicated?
Complicated yes, but I don't see this being a bad thing. In terms of working in a league system you have to look at /sp/hb, with 36 (I think) teams it is one of (if not the) biggest haxball leagues around and they have always used a Draft and Waivers system. Interestingly they had discussed a 'pick your own team' system (basically the system we have been using the last 3 Seasons) but was always shot down in favour of the draft. Linking it to real life (just as an example), the NFL in America uses waivers and a draft (as far as I know) and this seems to work fine. This compared to a 'money system' (used in the BPL etc.) seems like a much better way of going about things.

How will waivers order be decided in the first place?
Not fully confirmed at the moment, but it should be an inversion of the draft order. First pick in the draft gets last pick in waivers for the first Season at least anyway. 

How will draft order be picked then?
For the first Season it will be randomized (order will be decided live on stream to avoid any fixing), and in Seasons after that it will be inverted for the standings of the last Season. New teams get first picks in the first round and the team that won the title gets the last pick in the first round. This is then put into reverse order and it continues like that until the end of the draft. 

Surely teams will find a way to get stacked though?
With all these things in place then hopefully no. At the end of the Season regardless, squad trimming will reduce the chance of this happening. Squad trimming if you didn't know is at the end of the Season when captains have to choose 3 players (including themselves) to take into the next Season, with the rest of the players in their squad being free agents and able to sign up for the draft the next Season.

In the past didn't you say that you preferred not having a draft because it was easier to find captains and some players only wanted to play for one team, so the draft just created conflict and unnecessary effort?
Yup, but once again my opinion has changed. Catering the league for people who only want to play for a specific team is wrong. To tell the truth we don't really want people like this playing in the league. In terms of players refusing to play for certain teams when drafted/signed by waivers the trading solution above covers this so nobody really is disadvantaged.

Cup?
Well, with the league moving to 7 minute halves, this kinda left us without a good plan for the Cup. This coupled with downsizing to one Division means that we can scrap the Cup for the first Season at least as a Cup competition seems somewhat pointless given these circumstances, so its basically killing 2 birds with 1 stone really.

I liked the Cup Sad
hpns

Fair enough then. How did you come up with this whole idea anyway?
In truth, it may be the success of the BeneLiga has made us re-evaluate Galaxy and we believe that getting the community back is of number one priority.

How are you going to get a community back?
Aside from the Draft making the league more close-knit, we have made the decision that we're going to try and advertise the league more in public rooms. Because all in all, that's where everyone who plays in Haxball leagues has come from anyway. Having a draft to makes a league much more approachable (and advertisable) to players coming in.

Foreign player limit?
Maybe, we'll see it more as a minimum UK player quota anyway. This is in interests of keeping the community also, but we won't get into that debate now.

Season Start?
Undecided, certainly there will be a few weeks for the Draft signups/Captain Applications to fill up. 

Don't you think it's a bit unfair to break teams up though?
Naturally yes, but in terms of captains worrying about losing their place in the league, if you've been with us for a long time and have kept up a good team out of trouble then you'll stand a very good chance of being selected to be a captain once again.


Any questions please put below.


_________________
let the adminball commence


Record:

Haxball Revolution:
Played: 71 | Conceded: 42 | Clean Sheets: 41 | Assists: 12 | Goals: 3
Won: 41 | Drawn: 25 | Lost: 5
(there was 1 match where i was lagging badly so i'm not counting it in my stats)
(also this is only league games coz >cup)

The Defenders
Played: 12 | Conceded: 18 | Clean Sheets: 3 | Assists: 3 | Goals: 1
Won: 3 | Drawn: 4 | Lost: 5

One Game Wonders:
Eagles United: Lost 1-0 vs FAT
TeamSwift Drew 1-1 vs GH
TeamSwift Lost 4-2 vs EU
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2 Re: Season 7 Plan. on 2013-10-09, 08:24

Te][o


Eagles United
Eagles United
high level of play comes from continued play time together, this system changes that principle and will lower the level of the league as well as destroy any long term projects (the already molded great teams and those in process of formation)

either way, i hope the exotic pick for the captains list is reserved for me What a Face 

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3 Re: Season 7 Plan. on 2013-10-09, 08:34

jai!

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All Inclusive
\"Te wrote:[o"]high level of play comes from continued play time together, this system changes that principle and will lower the level of the league as well as destroy any long term projects (the already molded great teams and those in process of formation)

either way, i hope the exotic pick for the captains list is reserved for me What a Face 
i love you more and more everyday

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4 Re: Season 7 Plan. on 2013-10-09, 08:46

Maverick

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Gash Hounds Captain
*sigh* Guess I no longer stand a chance of being a captain now. It's a shame cos the best players on FF can actually all make the match days in this league. Typical! Very Happy 

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5 Re: Season 7 Plan. on 2013-10-09, 08:58

GReddy

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Administrator
Administrator
Maverick wrote:*sigh* Guess I no longer stand a chance of being a captain now. It's a shame cos the best players on FF can actually all make the match days in this league. Typical! Very Happy 
Maverick, you have a chance of being cap the same as anyone else, I think you do have the makings of a great captain, don't worry!


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6 Re: Season 7 Plan. on 2013-10-09, 09:04

mlfaijati

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Administrator & The Defenders
Administrator & The Defenders
@ Maverick Nobody is saying that, nothing is stopping you from applying for captaincy. Granted that the chances will be less than in previous Seasons I would say that signing up for the draft would be a good decision for you and those from FF.net also. Doing that would make you become integrated into the community and then if you would apply for the next Season you would most likely be selected then. I think that some people from FF.net would appreciate the change of scenery and the experience with playing with new people, so give it a think at least. Don't take this the wrong way, I think if you had applied in any of the previous 2/3 Seasons you would have been accepted 100%.

@ Te][o I'm guess we're going to have to agree to disagree here, I don't think your point isn't valid but that isn't really the direction I think the league should take. As Ren said on teamspeak today, sometimes you have to take one step back to move forward. I hope you do apply for captaincy again regardless, you are a great player and didn't cause us any problems in terms of playing matches - hopefully you'll be able to see things from our perspective and comply with the draft rules etc.

Thank you both for your contribution anyway.

I bite to much at Jai anyway so ye :/.


_________________
let the adminball commence


Record:

Haxball Revolution:
Played: 71 | Conceded: 42 | Clean Sheets: 41 | Assists: 12 | Goals: 3
Won: 41 | Drawn: 25 | Lost: 5
(there was 1 match where i was lagging badly so i'm not counting it in my stats)
(also this is only league games coz >cup)

The Defenders
Played: 12 | Conceded: 18 | Clean Sheets: 3 | Assists: 3 | Goals: 1
Won: 3 | Drawn: 4 | Lost: 5

One Game Wonders:
Eagles United: Lost 1-0 vs FAT
TeamSwift Drew 1-1 vs GH
TeamSwift Lost 4-2 vs EU
View user profile

7 Re: Season 7 Plan. on 2013-10-09, 09:05

Witsel

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Perfection A Captain
Perfection A Captain
SHUK


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- Captain of Perfection A -

- Season 5 : Finished 3rd in Division two -
- Season 6 : Finished 4th in Division one -
- Season 7 : Finished 1st in Division one -
- Season 8 : Finished 1st in Division one -

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8 Re: Season 7 Plan. on 2013-10-09, 09:08

GReddy

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Administrator
Administrator
Cunts can't stak 'nomore


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loveJU: there is always someone better dan u
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9 Re: Season 7 Plan. on 2013-10-09, 09:11

jai!

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All Inclusive
mlf is hitlers and ron atkinsons love child

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10 Re: Season 7 Plan. on 2013-10-09, 09:12

Guest


Guest

11 Re: Season 7 Plan. on 2013-10-09, 09:14

jai!

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NEGGED LOL

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12 Re: Season 7 Plan. on 2013-10-09, 09:18

Maverick

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Gash Hounds Captain
GReddy wrote:I think you do have the makings of a great captain, don't worry!
thanks mate. x

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13 Re: Season 7 Plan. on 2013-10-09, 10:07

community died when i went inactive tbh. :P


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14 Re: Season 7 Plan. on 2013-10-09, 18:04

☆AM-99☆7™


Administrator & Eagles United Captain
Administrator & Eagles United Captain
Wait wtf? I was not told this you said we were keeping the teams and now all teams are disbanded?????????
............., This is just Bullshit lol and seeing the neg count looks like no one wants to do this...


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<18:17:05> "AM-99": bare dumb
<18:17:05> "Gazza": bare dumb
A* CHEM


Eagles United
Goals 17
Assist 13
Cleans Sheets 2
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15 Re: Season 7 Plan. on 2013-10-09, 20:27

What is a draft?

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16 Re: Season 7 Plan. on 2013-10-09, 21:18

fap


The Defenders
The Defenders
brb comin back for draft

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17 Re: Season 7 Plan. on 2013-10-09, 21:30

Plan sounds good. However, are you going to make 2 Divisions again, or will it forever stay as 1 Division?

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18 Re: Season 7 Plan. on 2013-10-10, 02:05

mlfaijati

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Administrator & The Defenders
Administrator & The Defenders
Code Troth wrote:Plan sounds good. However, are you going to make 2 Divisions again, or will it forever stay as 1 Division?
It is unlikely that it will stay as 1 Division forever, we'll have to look at what is best though at the time when we do decide to expand the league. It could go into tiered Divisions again or we could use something like an equal conference setup but this is a dicussion for a later date. When we do make this decision we'll get community feedback like we are with this decision.


_________________
let the adminball commence


Record:

Haxball Revolution:
Played: 71 | Conceded: 42 | Clean Sheets: 41 | Assists: 12 | Goals: 3
Won: 41 | Drawn: 25 | Lost: 5
(there was 1 match where i was lagging badly so i'm not counting it in my stats)
(also this is only league games coz >cup)

The Defenders
Played: 12 | Conceded: 18 | Clean Sheets: 3 | Assists: 3 | Goals: 1
Won: 3 | Drawn: 4 | Lost: 5

One Game Wonders:
Eagles United: Lost 1-0 vs FAT
TeamSwift Drew 1-1 vs GH
TeamSwift Lost 4-2 vs EU
View user profile

19 Re: Season 7 Plan. on 2013-10-10, 02:51

Guest


Guest
☆AM-99☆7™ wrote:Wait wtf? I was not told this you said we were keeping the teams and now all teams are disbanded?????????
............., This is just Bullshit lol and seeing the neg count looks like no one wants to do this...
bruv it's like 99% chance ur gna captain a team this season if you were captain in the previous season if you make a captain application



20 Re: Season 7 Plan. on 2013-10-10, 04:00

jai!

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All Inclusive
waivers is dumb idea, players have to have some choice of where they are going, they sign up for the draft knowing that anyone can sign them

but if i speak to a player and say join my 3v3 team and the team thats bottom of the table has higher place in waivers and signs him, well it just fucks things up rly

same thing with the draft, this isnt fm ssn 1 when pub players could join leagues and be around the same level as league players, there is a huge difference in skill and a player like fap probably wont want to play for a team captained by a captain who sucks and signed crap players

but i guess it has to be done (the draft) cus the league is pretty dead atm

also, i dont rly know why captains are complaining about their teams being disbanded, you can just re apply and aslong as you're not an idiot you'll get your team back and nothing will have happened right?

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21 Re: Season 7 Plan. on 2013-10-10, 04:13

Rénbeaudach

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Administrator & The Defenders Captain
Administrator & The Defenders Captain
It takes a brave man to come out to meet the great masses of people with bold truths.

It takes an even braver one to meet them with a pack of lies.


_________________

- Captain of THE DEFENDERS -

- Season 3 : Finished 7th in Division One -
- Season 4 : Finished 3rd in Division One -
- Season 5 : Finished 7th in Division One - Cup Champions -
- Season 6 : Finished 6th in Division One -
- Season 7 : Finished 7th in Division One -

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22 Re: Season 7 Plan. on 2013-10-10, 04:25

jai!

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All Inclusive
3V3 BIG EZ FOR CUP MANZ

ANDDDDDDD

PEOPLE LIKE TE][O, KALAJAN AND MONKEY SHOULD GET CAP IF THEY WANT IT CUS ITS UNFAIR TO TAKE PPLS CAPTAINCY

SO JUST ASK CAPTAINS WHO WANTS TO STAY ON AND THEN WORK FROM THERE YE

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23 Re: Season 7 Plan. on 2013-10-10, 05:05

mlfaijati

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Administrator & The Defenders
Administrator & The Defenders
jai! wrote:waivers is dumb idea, players have to have some choice of where they are going, they sign up for the draft knowing that anyone can sign them

but if i speak to a player and say join my 3v3 team and the team thats bottom of the table has higher place in waivers and signs him, well it just fucks things up rly
Waivers stop teams from being stacked. If someone that has a higher waivers spot and signs the player you wanted then you would just have to make a fair trade to get him, ez.


_________________
let the adminball commence


Record:

Haxball Revolution:
Played: 71 | Conceded: 42 | Clean Sheets: 41 | Assists: 12 | Goals: 3
Won: 41 | Drawn: 25 | Lost: 5
(there was 1 match where i was lagging badly so i'm not counting it in my stats)
(also this is only league games coz >cup)

The Defenders
Played: 12 | Conceded: 18 | Clean Sheets: 3 | Assists: 3 | Goals: 1
Won: 3 | Drawn: 4 | Lost: 5

One Game Wonders:
Eagles United: Lost 1-0 vs FAT
TeamSwift Drew 1-1 vs GH
TeamSwift Lost 4-2 vs EU
View user profile

24 Re: Season 7 Plan. on 2013-10-10, 05:39

fap


The Defenders
The Defenders
but you see people taking advantage and making obvious 1 sided trades, especially if 1 team has had a shit start and cba anymore (check out some of renhax's trades, top players going for 4th round draft picks and such) so stacked teams will still happen.

but I think drafts is a good idea to help revive the league.

also having waivers the opposite to the draft order is totally unfair. having 1st pick over 3rd pick isnt as highly beneficial as being able to lose potentially 6 (or however many teams there are) of your signings during the season. If you are implementing both, you randomise both draft order and waivers order for the first season, then think of a system that works equally for the next season.

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25 Re: Season 7 Plan. on 2013-10-10, 05:49

mlfaijati

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Administrator & The Defenders
Administrator & The Defenders
fap wrote:but you see people taking advantage and making obvious 1 sided trades, especially if 1 team has had a shit start and cba anymore (check out some of renhax's trades, top players going for 4th round draft picks and such) so stacked teams will still happen.

I think we'll have some kind of admin power over unfair trades, I believe this is what happened in the past when we had to draft so I guess we'll carry that on. And obviously the idea is for people not to give up, but thanks for bringing that up.

but I think drafts is a good idea to help revive the league.

also having waivers the opposite to the draft order is totally unfair. having 1st pick over 3rd pick isnt as highly beneficial as being able to lose potentially 6 (or however many teams there are) of your signings during the season. If you are implementing both, you randomise both draft order and waivers order for the first season, then think of a system that works equally for the next season.

You could argue that more people will sign up for the draft and will be signed there, and people that couldn't get drafted would then get signed in the free agency from waivers. However I see what you mean with that. Randomising both might be a bit unfair though, say a team gets first draft pick and first in Waivers? That wouldn't be anyone's fault per se but it would give that team an unfair advantage. Still a valid point though so we'll discuss that.


_________________
let the adminball commence


Record:

Haxball Revolution:
Played: 71 | Conceded: 42 | Clean Sheets: 41 | Assists: 12 | Goals: 3
Won: 41 | Drawn: 25 | Lost: 5
(there was 1 match where i was lagging badly so i'm not counting it in my stats)
(also this is only league games coz >cup)

The Defenders
Played: 12 | Conceded: 18 | Clean Sheets: 3 | Assists: 3 | Goals: 1
Won: 3 | Drawn: 4 | Lost: 5

One Game Wonders:
Eagles United: Lost 1-0 vs FAT
TeamSwift Drew 1-1 vs GH
TeamSwift Lost 4-2 vs EU
View user profile

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